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Josh
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:30 pm  Reply with quote
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I think it's super lame, especially for folks like Doomie who bought plane tickets, but I hesitate to totally throw Justin under the bus until I know what happened. Yeah, they probably should have gotten visas earlier, but it strikes me as plausible that the government shutdown contributed to the cancellation. There are a lot of government employees furloughed at the moment.

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newbornbabyjesus
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:10 pm  Reply with quote
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I hope the ones who are blaming Godflesh/Justin for this visa fuck up will be as quick to apologise IF it turns out they/he couldn't do anything about it.
(feel sorry for those who are let down)
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I Don't Need God
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:16 pm  Reply with quote
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JMA689 wrote:
Justin commented on my Tricky post on FB, and worried about the Visa situation before the U.S. gov. shutdown. He said the USCIS offices were stalling on the visas. To his credit, they're also stalling on my green card renewal as well.
Rolling Eyes


That sucks JMA. Hopefully it gets sorted for you.

As to the GF situation, why the immediate lashing out at JKB? That seems like ridiculous conjecture. I get that y'all are bummed out at the situation, I am too. I was planning on getting tickets for Boston and NY but I guess it saves me money I don't have right now. But the dates are to be rescheduled! Yes it sucks right now but it will happen. And all this in spite of having NO word from JKB himself. Tough crowd.

He stated that there was a lag a few weeks ago, like JMA said. He's said NOTHING about the shutdown. That's a lot of other people in no way connected to the GF camp saying that. If the nebulous "Visa issues" excuse was rare, I would maybe think it had to be internal. However, this is a VERY common occurrence these days and has more to do with the Visa process AND RECENT SEQUESTRATION. Remember about 6 months ago there were major cutbacks in spending and as a result MANY agencies lost workers and timeframes for getting things done increased drastically. Including the Visa process. Read these... From March...

See #11 here. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/57-terrible-consequences-sequester/story?id=18551994

http://www.workpermit.com/news/2013-03-08/budget-cuts-will-affect-us-immigration-and-visa-system

Apr 2012 http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/11/arts/us-visa-rules-frustrate-foreign-performers.html?pagewanted=2

It is taking longer and longer and is harder to get Visas approved especially if there need to be additional checks on the app due to whatever extenuating circumstances. This is likely being exacerbated by the shutdown but there were already significant problems. Unfortunately this is become de rigueur. It sucks but in most cases isn't the fault of the artist. Many have wait to apply for a Visa until SHOWS ARE CONFIRMED by the promoter which can take a while. Visas can be expensive and if shows fall through due to promoter/club faults it can be costly for the artist and I would assume the Visa could be denied. It's becoming harder and harder for artists to get here and they are being made to wait longer.

Please try and not immediately blame the artist. And the thread title is really tasteless.

I love y'all and was looking forward to catching up soon, so I will now see you all in April.

Doomy - wavey davey Is there any way you can reschedule your flight? I know it costs a little to do so but that may be better than buying tickets again?

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I Don't Need God
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 12:12 am  Reply with quote
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Official statement.

JKB on FB wrote:
Unfortunately we have to now officially announce that the GODFLESH mini tour of the US is now postponed, the rescheduled dates will be announced shortly, the dates will now be in April 2014, we cannot yet confirm if tickets can be retained for the new dates, but we have information that this is in the process, the venues are the same besides one show, this will be confirmed over the next few days, we also hope to have exactly the same roster of supports - Prurient, Nails, and House Of Low Culture.
The reason for all this is once again visa issues; as is often the case with UK and European artists wishing to work/perform in the US, it is a laborious process, and it was stalled by the US immigration office, the USCIS, that reviews and processes these visas.
Clearly, and before the accusations come in, and I have already been made aware of several kneejerk reactions to this news, we, as a band, are not at the helm of this process - we have an reputable and professional agency in the US that worked this tour, and an US based legal team who work on achieving the visas, in tandem with our agency, all done within an extended timeframe which allows for any such problems, the issue here is quite simply that the USCIS stopped responding entirely to our legal team, regardless of how much our team relentlessly taxed the body for the petition/visa response, no response was forthcoming, irrespective of all efforts; the process had ground to a halt - they would not respond to us at all anymore, we had reports that the US govt. closedown was the final nail, but this is unconfirmed. So, once again, we are now going through the process, with even more time at our legal teams disposal to go through this all again and hope for the best.
Please, understand this - it's bureaucracy to blame here, not the band or it's agent / legal team, we all wish for the band to perform, otherwise why indeed would we even bother to invest time, energy and money into establishing this tour? Nor is it related to the ridiculous suggestion/assumption of my not wanting to tour; I do not wish to do large extended tours, I already am, and have been doing small tours, this was a small tour; Godflesh did a small tour of Europe earlier this year, and we, and I, have performed consistently throughout the world this year, I, as both jesu, Godflesh and JK Flesh have performed twice in Moscow in the last six weeks, for example, besides countless other performances in many countries globally. So, please do not be ignorant and narrow minded about this situation, and understand that we obviously want to perform, and will perform. We will announce the new dates within the next few days, the tour will be followed by the new GODFLESH album in May 2014. Thank You.


He's not happy about the comments/posts and I can't say as I blame him. Well done.

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god of xnoybis
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 12:27 am  Reply with quote
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This sucks, but I can't blame Justin/GF... Our government is a pile of dung. I've waited 17 years to see the mighty 'Flesh in the flesh again, but I guess I can wait a few more months
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maninacan
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 12:28 am  Reply with quote
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corking response an that last lines the cherry :bateman: :darbonk: :bateman:

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Josh
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 12:55 am  Reply with quote
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I Don't Need God wrote:
Official statement.

JKB on FB wrote:
Unfortunately we have to now officially announce that the GODFLESH mini tour of the US is now postponed, the rescheduled dates will be announced shortly, the dates will now be in April 2014, we cannot yet confirm if tickets can be retained for the new dates, but we have information that this is in the process, the venues are the same besides one show, this will be confirmed over the next few days, we also hope to have exactly the same roster of supports - Prurient, Nails, and House Of Low Culture.
The reason for all this is once again visa issues; as is often the case with UK and European artists wishing to work/perform in the US, it is a laborious process, and it was stalled by the US immigration office, the USCIS, that reviews and processes these visas.
Clearly, and before the accusations come in, and I have already been made aware of several kneejerk reactions to this news, we, as a band, are not at the helm of this process - we have an reputable and professional agency in the US that worked this tour, and an US based legal team who work on achieving the visas, in tandem with our agency, all done within an extended timeframe which allows for any such problems, the issue here is quite simply that the USCIS stopped responding entirely to our legal team, regardless of how much our team relentlessly taxed the body for the petition/visa response, no response was forthcoming, irrespective of all efforts; the process had ground to a halt - they would not respond to us at all anymore, we had reports that the US govt. closedown was the final nail, but this is unconfirmed. So, once again, we are now going through the process, with even more time at our legal teams disposal to go through this all again and hope for the best.
Please, understand this - it's bureaucracy to blame here, not the band or it's agent / legal team, we all wish for the band to perform, otherwise why indeed would we even bother to invest time, energy and money into establishing this tour? Nor is it related to the ridiculous suggestion/assumption of my not wanting to tour; I do not wish to do large extended tours, I already am, and have been doing small tours, this was a small tour; Godflesh did a small tour of Europe earlier this year, and we, and I, have performed consistently throughout the world this year, I, as both jesu, Godflesh and JK Flesh have performed twice in Moscow in the last six weeks, for example, besides countless other performances in many countries globally. So, please do not be ignorant and narrow minded about this situation, and understand that we obviously want to perform, and will perform. We will announce the new dates within the next few days, the tour will be followed by the new GODFLESH album in May 2014. Thank You.


He's not happy about the comments/posts and I can't say as I blame him. Well done.


I'm in the middle here. I think people may have gone too far in preemptively criticizing Justin. Still, he has a history of canceling/ postponing tours and disappointing fans, so it's not so black and white. I was planning on seeing 3 or 4 shows on that pre-breakup Godflesh tour with Halo and High On Fire and bought plane tickets to San Francisco to see the first show on the tour. I was incredibly excited about the tour and really devastated when it evaporated into smoke. Basically, a little backlash is to be expected and hopefully he won't take it too personally.

The U.S. government is easily one of the worst countries in the world to deal with when it comes to issuing Visas. I've heard this many times during my travels to other countries and it really bums me out. I don't think most Americans realize this and a little education in that area would be helpful for providing perspective.

Also, does he read Avalanche? His FB suggested that either he does or someone told him about this thread. I had no idea this would get back to him and would likely have been more diplomatic if I did. I don't have any interest in dumping on the guy.

So, to sum up, we're upset, he's upset, let's all take a deep breath and regroup and look forward to seeing the mighty Flesh in April!

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I Don't Need God
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:33 am  Reply with quote
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Josh wrote:
I'm in the middle here. I think people may have gone too far in preemptively criticizing Justin. Still, he has a history of canceling/ postponing tours and disappointing fans, so it's not so black and white. I was planning on seeing 3 or 4 shows on that pre-breakup Godflesh tour with Halo and High On Fire and bought plane tickets to San Francisco to see the first show on the tour. I was incredibly excited about the tour and really devastated when it evaporated into smoke. Basically, a little backlash is to be expected and hopefully he won't take it too personally.


I fully appreciate that folks are upset but some of the comments (and the thread title change) are pretty petty. I realize that the last tour crumbled but that was 12 years ago and he was pretty up front about the reasons. My problem (not with you, just in general) is that people just jumped to bashing without ANY confirmation as to the facts of the situation. He's been pretty right on with shows/tours for a while. Let's not conflate tour cancellations with JKB Time for releasing albums, the two are different. Again, I see why people are upset but the fact that he felt a need to comment on it is unfortunate.

I think he does read this from time to time. He's made references from time to time.

I wish the agonizing visa process here was more well known. The whole thing is seriously depriving the US of artists/speakers/brains/etc and it's such a vague, far away thing for most people here. Just another thing to throw on the shit-the-us-government-is-doing-to-further-isolate-the-country pile. It's incredibly sad.

BRING ON APRIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now that it's postponed, maybe I'll get to go to the Philly show as well.

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Bleed Dry Mankind
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:23 am  Reply with quote
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Well I have something to look forward to next year then. It kind of sucks cuz now it's gonna be an album tour. A World Only Lit By Fire better be good.
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skpprn
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:58 am  Reply with quote
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Havning an american wife and because of that have been living in the US for a long time, I know that INS and US government can drag out their processes for-ever. I lived in the US for 8 years and was married and my green-card took so long that I actually moved back home, after 8 years, before I got it. the INS has no database but does everything with papers, which means if your case needs to be handled by another office, the physical papers needs to mailed there. Then it can take a couple of weeks after it has arrived at that office before the right person gets them. The whole bureaucracy in that country is beyond anything I have ever dealt with.
And when I lived in NY I constantly had shows being cancelled because european bands had not gotten their VISA's on time. I feel it is standard nowadays that bands show up the US about 4-5 shows into a tour. For things like this to work there has to be an interest from the US to make them work, and sadly there is none whatsoever.
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Boyd and Fiends
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:56 am  Reply with quote
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Ouch!!! You Americans are a tough bunch... from JKB's post it doesn't sound like he's done anything wrong.

At least he's planning to come back next year. Try living in Australia! I had to travel to France to see him play and *almost* missed seeing him due to a generator blowing up!!!
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elrrek
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:48 am  Reply with quote
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Having recently applied for a visa to work in India I have 2 things to add to this.

1. if you have a good system, and amazingly the Indians seem to have a good system, then this stuff can go very smoothly if you prepare yourself and do it in a timely manner. From what I have heard, the US system is NOT a good system and they (the US immigration authorities) are notorious for NOT doing things in a timely manner.

2. the application for visas cost money! and if you do not have everything set up, venues, transport, supports then why should you spend more money early to get visas which you might not even need? Yes, everything is a trade off and people could say "visas first then all the other arrangements" but I don not agree.

It sucks massively that this is not going to happen for people who have already spent money on arranging things, it sucks for Godflesh who are not going to get to play these shows until later in the year and have to deal with the assault on their already shakey reputation but I don't believe that pinning the blame on Godflesh is fair.

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klawful
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:05 pm  Reply with quote
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having successfully dealt with the loss of not seeing the Deal girls live by positioning 2 princess leia figurines on a coffee table, cranking their music, and letting alcohol and the human imagination fill in the gaps--I think I have a solution to ease the pain now.



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elrrek
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:50 pm  Reply with quote
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Genius.

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klawful
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:09 pm  Reply with quote
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Link To The YouTube Page Containing The Above Video


punk2
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InDub
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:55 pm  Reply with quote
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If anyone has yet to buy "trip insurance" when booking airline tickets, don't bother. Occurrences like this aren't covered.

I only wish I could donate the nearly $800 I just lost in airfare to JKB rather than to the airline.
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klawful
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 8:13 pm  Reply with quote
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that blows--so there isn't an option to take a credit for a future flight (with some kind of fee i'm sure) ?
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Body Dome Light
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 8:28 pm  Reply with quote
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Shit happens, as they say. Blaming the band is pretty stupid - it's beyond their control. I like Godflesh as much as the next person, but is it a life and death situation if I don't see them? Well, no. Just a band.

People are angry. Yeah, that is the problem with this country right there. People are angry about all of the wrong things. Instead of throwing these assholes out of power, people are angry about Ben Affleck playing Batman and Godflesh canceling a tour. Sigh.
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InDub
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 8:47 pm  Reply with quote
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klawful wrote:
that blows--so there isn't an option to take a credit for a future flight (with some kind of fee i'm sure) ?


Yeah, I can take a credit but with a $200 fee per ticket, which means that if I book another trip I'm basically paying for this canceled one, plus another $200 for each re-booked ticket (for a total of around $1200 for a new trip). If I just cancel them outright, I'm out roughly $800 with no trip.

Hopefully I can at least get the show tickets refunded, because I won't be able to make the rescheduled date after this. I'm relatively gainfully employed, but not so much so that I can just flush $800 down the bog without it hurting.

That's what I get for getting greedy and trying to take in two GF shows instead of just the one in my city.
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doomride
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:08 pm  Reply with quote
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Body Dome Light wrote:
Shit happens, as they say. Blaming the band is pretty stupid - it's beyond their control. I like Godflesh as much as the next person, but is it a life and death situation if I don't see them? Well, no. Just a band.

People are angry. Yeah, that is the problem with this country right there. People are angry about all of the wrong things. Instead of throwing these assholes out of power, people are angry about Ben Affleck playing Batman and Godflesh canceling a tour. Sigh.



Really,dude? Nobody said this situation was life or death...people have the right to feel anyway they want about this shit...some of us spent a bunch of fucking money and time that we can't get back and if the immediate reaction is to be pissed off then it's totally warranted...especially when there have been issues in the past...it doesn't need to be turned it to some grandiose shit about people being angry for the wrong reasons...I'm not even pissed...just disappointed and irritated...and after my initial sour feeling subsided I got happy about the fact that I'm still going to go hang out with my cool fucking friends and have a blast...I just wish we could all rock balls to GF while we were doing it...

I'm just sitting here baffled because I see tons of bands from overseas playing all over the place here in Miami and in NYC and elsewhere...no dates are cancelled and there are no problems with visas...I've even talked to a few through work...just rather confused about the whole thing,even after the explanation...I think it sucks all around for everyone involved...that being said,I'm drinking a Red Stripe on a beautiful Miami day and looking forward to being in NYC in a week...on it goes...

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Body Dome Light
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:12 am  Reply with quote
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doomride wrote:
Body Dome Light wrote:
Shit happens, as they say. Blaming the band is pretty stupid - it's beyond their control. I like Godflesh as much as the next person, but is it a life and death situation if I don't see them? Well, no. Just a band.

People are angry. Yeah, that is the problem with this country right there. People are angry about all of the wrong things. Instead of throwing these assholes out of power, people are angry about Ben Affleck playing Batman and Godflesh canceling a tour. Sigh.



Really,dude? Nobody said this situation was life or death...people have the right to feel anyway they want about this shit...some of us spent a bunch of fucking money and time that we can't get back and if the immediate reaction is to be pissed off then it's totally warranted...especially when there have been issues in the past...it doesn't need to be turned it to some grandiose shit about people being angry for the wrong reasons...I'm not even pissed...just disappointed and irritated...and after my initial sour feeling subsided I got happy about the fact that I'm still going to go hang out with my cool fucking friends and have a blast...I just wish we could all rock balls to GF while we were doing it...

I'm just sitting here baffled because I see tons of bands from overseas playing all over the place here in Miami and in NYC and elsewhere...no dates are cancelled and there are no problems with visas...I've even talked to a few through work...just rather confused about the whole thing,even after the explanation...I think it sucks all around for everyone involved...that being said,I'm drinking a Red Stripe on a beautiful Miami day and looking forward to being in NYC in a week...on it goes...


I never said you couldn't be pissed, I just said don't blame the band. I'm sure the last thing Justin wants to deal with is irate fans. I don't think he intentionally fucked you guys over. That is all.

And also, I don't know the ins and outs of various board members lives, so don't take it personally if I wasn't aware that you had spent a shit load of money. I still feel the same way regardless. The govt shutdown is a shit show, no doubt about it. Whaddya going to do? Maybe the band should have been more prepared, but knowing Justin he was just chilling and getting blazed and doesn't really give two shits about following the political situation in the states.
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skpprn
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:23 am  Reply with quote
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Can you get the money back with a doctor's note? Works with some airlines. And there must be a way to get that, or?
Just feel bad for you and are trying to help.
I also know that if you pay for a ticket with VISA they cover and help with some issues, look into that.
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DARWIN
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:00 am  Reply with quote
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Body Dome Light wrote:
The govt shutdown is a shit show, no doubt about it. Whaddya going to do? Maybe the band should have been more prepared, but knowing Justin he was just chilling and getting blazed and doesn't really give two shits about following the political situation in the states.


Excatly
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doomride
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:48 am  Reply with quote
Lord Marcus Ironfist teh Twonk-bane


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Josh wrote:
I Don't Need God wrote:
Official statement.

JKB on FB wrote:
Unfortunately we have to now officially announce that the GODFLESH mini tour of the US is now postponed, the rescheduled dates will be announced shortly, the dates will now be in April 2014, we cannot yet confirm if tickets can be retained for the new dates, but we have information that this is in the process, the venues are the same besides one show, this will be confirmed over the next few days, we also hope to have exactly the same roster of supports - Prurient, Nails, and House Of Low Culture.
The reason for all this is once again visa issues; as is often the case with UK and European artists wishing to work/perform in the US, it is a laborious process, and it was stalled by the US immigration office, the USCIS, that reviews and processes these visas.
Clearly, and before the accusations come in, and I have already been made aware of several kneejerk reactions to this news, we, as a band, are not at the helm of this process - we have an reputable and professional agency in the US that worked this tour, and an US based legal team who work on achieving the visas, in tandem with our agency, all done within an extended timeframe which allows for any such problems, the issue here is quite simply that the USCIS stopped responding entirely to our legal team, regardless of how much our team relentlessly taxed the body for the petition/visa response, no response was forthcoming, irrespective of all efforts; the process had ground to a halt - they would not respond to us at all anymore, we had reports that the US govt. closedown was the final nail, but this is unconfirmed. So, once again, we are now going through the process, with even more time at our legal teams disposal to go through this all again and hope for the best.
Please, understand this - it's bureaucracy to blame here, not the band or it's agent / legal team, we all wish for the band to perform, otherwise why indeed would we even bother to invest time, energy and money into establishing this tour? Nor is it related to the ridiculous suggestion/assumption of my not wanting to tour; I do not wish to do large extended tours, I already am, and have been doing small tours, this was a small tour; Godflesh did a small tour of Europe earlier this year, and we, and I, have performed consistently throughout the world this year, I, as both jesu, Godflesh and JK Flesh have performed twice in Moscow in the last six weeks, for example, besides countless other performances in many countries globally. So, please do not be ignorant and narrow minded about this situation, and understand that we obviously want to perform, and will perform. We will announce the new dates within the next few days, the tour will be followed by the new GODFLESH album in May 2014. Thank You.


He's not happy about the comments/posts and I can't say as I blame him. Well done.


I'm in the middle here. I think people may have gone too far in preemptively criticizing Justin. Still, he has a history of canceling/ postponing tours and disappointing fans, so it's not so black and white. I was planning on seeing 3 or 4 shows on that pre-breakup Godflesh tour with Halo and High On Fire and bought plane tickets to San Francisco to see the first show on the tour. I was incredibly excited about the tour and really devastated when it evaporated into smoke. Basically, a little backlash is to be expected and hopefully he won't take it too personally.

The U.S. government is easily one of the worst countries in the world to deal with when it comes to issuing Visas. I've heard this many times during my travels to other countries and it really bums me out. I don't think most Americans realize this and a little education in that area would be helpful for providing perspective.

Also, does he read Avalanche? His FB suggested that either he does or someone told him about this thread. I had no idea this would get back to him and would likely have been more diplomatic if I did. I don't have any interest in dumping on the guy.

So, to sum up, we're upset, he's upset, let's all take a deep breath and regroup and look forward to seeing the mighty Flesh in April!




I think Josh nails it here and this is how I ultimately feel about the whole situation in that I don't feel it's so black and white...except I'm also not apologizing for anything and would have made the same statements regardless if I thought Justin was reading this or not heh...he might have heard about some shit said on the prongs.org site also because they were way more nasty over there...oh well,I'm done commenting in this thread and sadly I'm not going to be going in April...

@idng-good to hear from you Matt and will reply to your pm soon...

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Mothra
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:03 pm  Reply with quote
Board Sherlock


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Quote:
Re: GODFLESH US tour postponement and refunds, etc - We have seen this from Ticketmaster "We just learned that your upcoming event has been postponed: Godflesh, Irving Plaza
Saturday, October 19th with the doors opening at 9PM New date: To Be Announced! Your original tickets are still good and will be honored once the new date is announced.
Need a refund? We'll refund your order, if requested, including fees....." So, we hope that this info will give everyone some idea of how the ticket refunds, etc will pan out, but please do remember that Godflesh as a band do not have anything at all related to the process of refunds, etc, this is all down to the organisation you bought your tickets from - for example, Ticketmaster, etc. The new dates will be announced within 24 hours; they are almost exactly the same cities and venues, only the venue in SF has changed. The dates will begin in Philadelphia on 11th April, and end in Austin on April 24th. We may even have another date or two on the West Coast besides Seattle, Portland, LA and SF.

Again, very, very sorry for those who have lost out here, financially and besides, just know that we have too, considerably, this tour would have supported my family and I for some time, I now do not have that income. Thank you to those who understand and empathise, ultimately we're all in this together.

I am sorry for those that still feel the need to blame the band, and/or anyone working for the band, we clearly understand how this can be angering, of course, though it's still quite bizarre, yet not at all surprising, that one would wish to blame the band they claim to support, more so than their own governments red tape and protocol, also, this level of ignorance, stubbornness, and immediate lack of the capacity to be understanding outside of oneself and one's own needs/indulgence, coupled with the obvious inability to hold discourse without resorting to lashing out verbally (and possibly even physically in a very 'real' context), before reasonably engaging one's brain, is actually one of the many issues I and Godflesh, and jesu to some extent, have been dealing with lyrically for many years, it's often still quite disheartening to find, time and time again, that SOME people buying (maybe) our music have traits that are genuinely offensive to us. Just remember, Godflesh is not 'tough guy' music, is not for empty macho posturing and flexing, we oppose these acts of banality, and perhaps not even coincidentally, internet posturing is just an extension of this, and arguably more insipid since it's so easy to hide behind one's keyboard and pour vitriol onto anything one wishes to, it's simply pathetic, real life is so much better, really, try it some time.

And, for those who still claim to see a trillion bands from over here in Europe coming into the US in their droves without visa issues, and seem to have an inability to understand why we are not, coupled with the fact that we have had our visas stalled on an number of occasions in the past (besides Godflesh with the 'Hymns' tour, where I split the band up just before the tour, which oddly still seems to anger some - no GC Green? Is that Godflesh? No, it is not Godflesh), maybe some are not aware of this, or possibly would not want to be aware of this since it may somewhat put some things into perspective, but we wouldn't want that would we? No, just blame the band.

Godflesh was invited to play the US in 1990; two shows in the Boston area, we had only just signed with Earache Records, they told us we could go to the US, guitar, bass and drum machine in hand, and literally say we're staying with friends, and play these shows, that nothing else was required, we, being very young and naive about this (I was just 20 years old), agreed that we should just do this, Earache claimed it would be fine, having themselves very little experience in dealing with sending bands to the US. Stupid, yes, in hindsight, of course. Upon our arrival we were taken separately into 'interrogation' rooms, found to be a 'threat' and promptly placed, almost physically (security / police escorted us onto the actual flight itself), and deported back to the UK, we were told this would not affect our future visits to the US. Well, it has ALWAYS affected us, we cannot come as a tourist to the US, only on work visas, we are quizzed extensively every time on this issue, and it contributes to stalling our visas, and there is simply not a thing we can do about this, nothing, all possible avenues have been exhausted, and why would they not be?

So, we always have to allow more time to achieve work visas for the USA, BUT, bands can only apply once all the shows / dates are set in stone and confirmed, or you cannot apply for the visa, and, these dates / shows can never be solidified too early because this industry just does not work like that, this can be hard for some to comprehend, but when this is one's life, believe me, you comprehend it, this may help some gain a little perspective as to how these issues arise and how these things go wrong, but go ahead blame the band, please, it's the easy way out, but if that makes one feel better, so be it, ignorance is bliss; makes one feel better, and 'right', I mean it surely just couldn't be the responsibility of the USCIS and US government could it?!!!

Some have asked why I feel the need at all to validate and qualify our position on this - because we wish for people to be understanding, to see outside of their selves a little.
But that's it, we are done explaining, so be it, if you are still so angered, do not come and see the band, do not buy the records, hate us, if that makes you feel good.

Thank you for listening, and if possible, like most of you, understanding, rescheduled dates soon....

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InDub
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:10 pm  Reply with quote
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Interesting bit of back story, re: the '90 issue.
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elrrek
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:13 pm  Reply with quote
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That's an interesting read Smile

It gives me one more reason to be pissed with earache records for a start.

It also reinforces something I have believed in for a long, long time. Being an "artist" is always - 100% of the time - an exercise in compromise. You will never be able to present what is in your head as an artist and have it perceived by another person in exactly the same manner and the more people involved, the greater the compromise. This doesn't exactly fit with the topic of the discussion you are maybe asking? Well, it does. The Hellfest show wasn't crap because Godflesh were crap, the Hellfest show was crap because Godflesh had to compromise their show due to the ineptitude (bad luck if I am being nice) of the origanisers of Hellfest.

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blackmark
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:21 pm  Reply with quote
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and in other news the hellfest show was good! messed up, but still good Wink

makes me think its pointless for me trying to get to US too. you guys come here, goddamn lazy colonials

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klawful
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:26 pm  Reply with quote
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let's pick some halfway point.

which would be somewhere in the north atlantic.



this place looks nice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vila_do_Corvo_%28Azores%29
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Josh
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:31 pm  Reply with quote
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It makes sense that Godflesh has been blacklisted since they tried to sneak in without work Visas back in the early 90s. (I was one of the people who showed up to Skinny Puppy thinking I would see Godflesh opening. No worries there since they came back 4 or 5 months later on their own and played a punishing hour and a half set that I can still remember well 20 years later.) And that kind of Visa unpleasantness has gotten much worse since 9/11. I'm glad Justin posted that explanation, he filled in the gaps, and it explains why this has been a recurring problem and why it has largely been out of his control. Shame on my government for treating him this way.

I think his post is a bit unnecessarily harsh at times, but whatever, it's barely worth mentioning now.

Anyway, I am not going to make the trek to NYC this weekend, too much shit going on, and I was barely going to muster the energy for Godflesh. But I am really excited to see them in 6 months and I hope to see many of you there!

P.S. JMA-- I hope your situation gets sorted quickly. Good luck.

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Body Dome Light
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:52 am  Reply with quote
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Well, worst thing that happens is all these people who are "pissed" will just turn their backs on the band and won't go to the new dates. More room for me.

Is that harsh? Well, shit yes. But at the same time I do notice that there have been some "new" Godflesh fans who fit all of the machismo knucklehead metal stereotypes. If I don't share the floor with these people it wouldn't hurt my feelings. As Justin said, Godflesh was never about that.

The only people I extend any amount of sympathy to in this manner are the people who did buy plane tickets to go to shows in other cities. Yeah, that sucks... but still, the band got fucked and so did the fans. We all got fucked by uncle sam. What else is new?
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nhtp
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:21 am  Reply with quote
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I feel bad for you guys missing the Flesh. Teh SuckS!

The only experience I've had with US visa administration, was in 2006 when I needed a 1 year working visa. Numerous forms to be filled, 2 visits to the embassy (paying a fee to get in) and my passport was in US custody for a week. It did go through smoothly, mainly because the place I was going was used to the paperwork, and my boss at the time was american. But that was in 2006, my name isn't Muhammed and I don't have any red lights blinking in some database.

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elrrek
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:55 am  Reply with quote
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nhtp wrote:
my name isn't Muhammed


Let me fix that for you (commit changes to database? YES!)

nhtp wrote:
and I don't have any red lights blinking in some database.


You do now!

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nhtp
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:10 am  Reply with quote
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elrrek wrote:
nhtp wrote:
my name isn't Muhammed


Let me fix that for you (commit changes to database? YES!)

nhtp wrote:
and I don't have any red lights blinking in some database.


You do now!


Damn you and your supreme hacking skills!

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blackmark
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:07 am  Reply with quote
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yes its for the man himself to define what Godflesh are about, but lets not pretend they are emo. That's Jesu Wink

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Boyd and Fiends
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:34 am  Reply with quote
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blackmark wrote:
lets not pretend they are emo. That's Jesu Wink


lol Correct!
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avocado diaboli
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:55 am  Reply with quote
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This whole episode sucks for all you US folks. I feel sorry for you all (except Josh), especially Doomy. Maybe you can all meet up and still have a good time (except Josh).

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Josh
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:21 pm  Reply with quote
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avocado diaboli wrote:
This whole episode sucks for all you US folks. I feel sorry for you all (except Josh), especially Doomy. Maybe you can all meet up and still have a good time (except Josh).


it's so easy to hide behind one's keyboard and pour vitriol onto anything one wishes to, it's simply pathetic, real life is so much better, really, try it some time.

xo,

Josh

Wink

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elrrek
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:01 pm  Reply with quote
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Josh wrote:
it's so easy to hide behind one's keyboard and pour vitriol onto anything one wishes to, it's simply pathetic, real life is so much better, really, try it some time.

xo,

Josh

Wink


it's so easy to hide behind one's keyboard and pour vitriol onto anything one wishes to, it's simply pathetic, real life is so much better, really, try it some time.

xo,

elrrek

Wink

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Josh
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:18 pm  Reply with quote
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^^^^^^^^^^Who's next?????

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